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	<title>Comments on: ELCA &#8212; Lutheran CORE scorecard  OOPS UPDATE</title>
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		<title>By: Obie Holmen</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberalspirit.com/?p=1930&#038;cpage=1#comment-910</link>
		<dc:creator>Obie Holmen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 18:21:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-908&quot;&gt;@Paul Buzzard  &lt;/a&gt; 

&quot;By no vote of their own were put in the ELCA&quot;

Presumbably, that congregation had delegates to the LCA assemblies that decided to merge... they were not helpless stooges without voice or vote.  That congregation could have opted out of the LCA, or the merger, or the ELCA at any time by following the procedures within the CONGREGATION&#039;S OWN CONSTITUTION, which undoubtedly would have required 2/3, but your implication that your congregation was totally void of any power over its own destiny is totally false.  Similarly, your terminology &quot;to get out from under their control&quot; is a grotesque misunderstanding of the polity of your own congregation.  To suggest that the ELCA &quot;controls&quot; local congregations is paranoid and conspiratorial.

You also attempt to create an analogy between apples and oranges.  When Urland joined the loose affilation known as LC3, it was not a constitutional action of major importance, and may well have been simply the pastor&#039;s decision.  To equate the circumstances of joining LC3 with the ELCA merger is a gross overstatement.  Even now, the process of joining Lutheran Core is informal: &quot;Churches join Lutheran CORE by affirming the Common Confession and declaring in writing their intention to support Lutheran CORE’s ministry. Send a letter on your church letterhead signed by your pastor or president with the date of your church&#039;s decision,&quot; according to CORE&#039;s own website.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-908">@Paul Buzzard  </a> </p>
<p>&#8220;By no vote of their own were put in the ELCA&#8221;</p>
<p>Presumbably, that congregation had delegates to the LCA assemblies that decided to merge&#8230; they were not helpless stooges without voice or vote.  That congregation could have opted out of the LCA, or the merger, or the ELCA at any time by following the procedures within the CONGREGATION&#8217;S OWN CONSTITUTION, which undoubtedly would have required 2/3, but your implication that your congregation was totally void of any power over its own destiny is totally false.  Similarly, your terminology &#8220;to get out from under their control&#8221; is a grotesque misunderstanding of the polity of your own congregation.  To suggest that the ELCA &#8220;controls&#8221; local congregations is paranoid and conspiratorial.</p>
<p>You also attempt to create an analogy between apples and oranges.  When Urland joined the loose affilation known as LC3, it was not a constitutional action of major importance, and may well have been simply the pastor&#8217;s decision.  To equate the circumstances of joining LC3 with the ELCA merger is a gross overstatement.  Even now, the process of joining Lutheran Core is informal: &#8220;Churches join Lutheran CORE by affirming the Common Confession and declaring in writing their intention to support Lutheran CORE’s ministry. Send a letter on your church letterhead signed by your pastor or president with the date of your church&#8217;s decision,&#8221; according to CORE&#8217;s own website.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Buzzard</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberalspirit.com/?p=1930&#038;cpage=1#comment-908</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Buzzard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:57:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>My congregation was a part of the LCA and by no vote of their own were put in the ELCA.  The ELCA requires a 2/3 majority to get out from under their control.  I believe the Urland Lutheran Church would only need a simple majority vote to leave the Common Confession group (Now CORE by no vote of their own) they joined.  Who would be more controlling in this analogy?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My congregation was a part of the LCA and by no vote of their own were put in the ELCA.  The ELCA requires a 2/3 majority to get out from under their control.  I believe the Urland Lutheran Church would only need a simple majority vote to leave the Common Confession group (Now CORE by no vote of their own) they joined.  Who would be more controlling in this analogy?</p>
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		<title>By: Keith Homstad</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberalspirit.com/?p=1930&#038;cpage=1#comment-896</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Homstad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 15:11:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theliberalspirit.com/?p=1930#comment-896</guid>
		<description>Hmmm.  After reading about the difficulty of getting &quot;unstuck&quot; from the CORE bunch - the phrase &quot;demonic tar-baby&quot; came to mind.  How can a splinter group dare demand that an ELCA congregation has to hold a congregational vote in order to be removed from their list of &quot;members&quot;?  What&#039;s to say that the CORE bunch won&#039;t demand some sort of ransom, or blackmail, in order to go away?  All of this makes their claim of being Christ centered look pretty weird.  Ahhh.  Another phrase just came to mind ... &quot;control freaks&quot;!  So ... C.O.R.E. might stand for Control Our Reluctant Enemies!  Might work.  Though Enemies seems a tad too strong.  Whatever.  Individual mileage on this will vary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm.  After reading about the difficulty of getting &#8220;unstuck&#8221; from the CORE bunch &#8211; the phrase &#8220;demonic tar-baby&#8221; came to mind.  How can a splinter group dare demand that an ELCA congregation has to hold a congregational vote in order to be removed from their list of &#8220;members&#8221;?  What&#8217;s to say that the CORE bunch won&#8217;t demand some sort of ransom, or blackmail, in order to go away?  All of this makes their claim of being Christ centered look pretty weird.  Ahhh.  Another phrase just came to mind &#8230; &#8220;control freaks&#8221;!  So &#8230; C.O.R.E. might stand for Control Our Reluctant Enemies!  Might work.  Though Enemies seems a tad too strong.  Whatever.  Individual mileage on this will vary.</p>
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